Exhausted ballots are not counted in the Final Round
-
"Exhausted ballots are not counted in the Final RCV Round" versus "In STAR Voting all ballots are counted in both rounds".
I think we need a better explanation - I know what we mean with this graphic - but I feel that there is something wrong with our graphic (some logic shortcut / half truth).
How can we explain it in such a way that it is clear why we think that the graphic is accurate (see below a link to the graphic).I know each model or graphic is a mental shortcut - but sometime a model / a graphic can go too far in simplifying something:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JMXJeJic5-5Ol97LuKs-o5OCY2TsZJfD4ow9xW40lvM/edit#
-
The caption thing seems a bit dishonest to me.
If I understand it correctly, it's saying that in IRV if someone doesn't rank all the candidates, then their ballot might get exhausted before the final round so their vote won't be counted.
Whereas in STAR voting, it counts equal scores as a vote of no preference between candidates.
However, it does not mention that you can leave scores blank in STAR and they're counted as 0 (as far as I understand), so this would be just as much a ballot exhaustion as in IRV.
Also, if someone by choice doesn't rank all the candidates, they are implicitly ranking the remaining candidates equal anyway. So I'm not sure I see much difference.
In STAR, because there are only 6 scores, then with 7+ candidates, voters are forced to have some candidates equal. They don't necessarily know which two will make the run-off, and might not have rated those two candidates as equal if they knew they'd be in the run-off.
The point is that both STAR and IRV can have people's votes not counting in the final round. In STAR it can be forced by the method. So in this respect, IRV beats STAR. I'm not saying it's a better method, but this aspect of it is not an advert for STAR.
-
What do you mean by a "choice"?
RCV IRV Hare advocate criticizing STAR voting:
- You are not counting my vote (ballot? / choice?) in the second round
What does this complaint mean?
The point of a multiround tallying rule is usually to eliminate candidates. This certainly applies to STAR and RCV IRV Hare. In the rounds other than the first, your ballot must be interpreted as though the candidates that have already been eliminated from the election, as though their names and everything pertaining to them on your ballot has been swept away. The remaining effect of your ballot must come from what it says about the candidates who are still in the running.
In general, I think that if a ballot is to be thought of in some sort of parts, the most useful parts are its expressions or implications with regard to the pairs of candidates.
-
@toby-pereira said in Exhausted ballots are not counted in the Final Round:
you can leave scores blank in STAR and they're counted as 0 (as far as I understand)
That is correct.
-
@toby-pereira - here are two terms:
-
I don't know what that article means. Suppose in a strict-ranking balloting I indicate Nader > Gore > Bush. From that ballot, what count as my "choices", for purposes of this discussion?
-
@masiarek said in Exhausted ballots are not counted in the Final Round:
@toby-pereira - here are two terms:
It's not clear what the difference is.
-
To clarify, the doc shared above, and the image at the top, is Adam's work. It's not not an Equal Vote graphic. The part in color is a crop from one of our scorecard infographics. The other part is from a volunteer's DRAFT graphic she's working on and shared privately asking for feedback. Adam has these two element combined in the doc he created.
@masiarek I expect this wasn't your intent, but taking her draft work that she shared in a private conversation (the STAR Slack is a private group for our volunteers) and then reposting it for critique without context in a public forum (votingtheory.org) is problematic, especially because you've modified the work and collaged it with other graphics in a way she didn't approve.
-
To speak to Adam's point itself-
Exhausted ballots in RCV are not only "votes of no preference" ie. ballots that intentionally didn't rank any of the RCV finalists, but also:
a) votes that were unable to transfer to a viable alternative because of the order of elimination, and that could have made a difference if their other rankings had been counted.
b) voters who were unable to rank all the candidates due to ballot limitations.STAR always counts all the ballot data. Every ballot is included in the final round. A vote of No Preference is explicitly a voter who chose to score those candidates equally, and that neutral runoff vote IS counted. No voters will have their votes unable to transfer.
Note: Spoiled/voided ballots are often included in RCV exhausted ballot stats, but are sometimes counted separately. In any case, spoiled ballots in RCV are common. Accidentally spoiling your STAR ballot is much harder to do.
-
Dear team,
I would like to sincerely apologize for my mistake regarding the graphics shared in the public forum.I acknowledge that I did not follow the proper protocol for graphics in draft status and in private channels,
and
I also understand the importance of maintaining the context and consent when sharing someone else's work.
