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    A tweak to IRV to make it a Condorcet method

    Voting Method Discussion
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    • wolftune
      wolftune @cfrank last edited by

      @cfrank yeah, after posting I went further into the electowiki link etc

      But I think my key view isn't just the decency of the method but the marketing as "IRV tweak". I imagine so much more success talking to RCV advocates and saying, "hey, there's a tweak that really improves RCV, it's just doing a bottom-two runoff when eliminating candidates…" and it sounds so much more "yes and" than other ways of bringing up issues with methods in practice…

      GregW 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
      • J
        Jack Waugh last edited by

        If equal-ranking is permitted at the bottom (e. g., by leaving candidates unmarked) but not permitted at the top, then the Frohnmayer equality constraint is violated.

        Approval-ordered Llull (letter grades) [10], Score // Llull [9], Score, STAR, Approval, other rated Condorcet [8]; equal-ranked Condorcet [4]; strictly-ranked Condorcet [3]; everything else [0].

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • GregW
          GregW @wolftune last edited by GregW

          @wolftune

          BTR-Score is easier to explain than IRV. No need to talk about transferring votes.

          Rated methods are generally simple, here is may take on a few:
          Score Voting Methods – Score, STAR, and BTR-Score

          wolftune 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
          • wolftune
            wolftune @GregW last edited by

            @gregw for some reason, I can't click the link to see that other post you are referencing, but I was able to look into BTR-score mentioned in various places. I agree it is fine, but it is much bigger step (less of just a tweak) to go from people assuming RCV/IRV is all there is. Given a world of naive people just thinking IRV is the only alternative, the smallest tweak from there is easier to promote. With BTR-IRV, the ballot style can stay the same.

            I'm not saying BTR-IRV is ideal, I'm saying it's more practical in the context of political reality.

            J C 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • J
              Jack Waugh @wolftune last edited by Jack Waugh

              @wolftune, any number of times, I have responded to PropagandaName's Tweets in favor of not-further-specified RCV by asking "Why do you oppose bottom-two runoff?". There has not been much response. Maybe more voices repeating the same question would help draw attention to it.

              Approval-ordered Llull (letter grades) [10], Score // Llull [9], Score, STAR, Approval, other rated Condorcet [8]; equal-ranked Condorcet [4]; strictly-ranked Condorcet [3]; everything else [0].

              wolftune 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
              • wolftune
                wolftune @Jack Waugh last edited by

                @jack-waugh if you are describing RR from FV, I once had an argument about the bullet-vote claim and score voting, and it devolved to be obvious that some people have no interest in even softening their confidence about something in light of being questioned. I don't use Twitter/X at all anymore. I think best to bring up BTR in whatever random conversations when RCV comes up. More people will bring it up when more people know it is a thing etc.

                1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                • C
                  cfrank @wolftune last edited by

                  @wolftune @GregW same, I can’t click the link

                  score-stratified-condorcet [10] cardinal-condorcet [9] ranked-condorcet [8] score [7] approval [6] ranked-bucklin [5] star [4] ranked-irv [3] ranked-borda [2] for-against [1] distribute [0] choose-one [0]

                  1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • GregW
                    GregW last edited by

                    @cfrank

                    Link fixed, I got a little sloppy with the paste.

                    Score Voting Methods - Score, STAR, and BTR-Score

                    1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • B
                      Brian Lackey @wolftune last edited by

                      @wolftune I do like this idea, it would also improve IRV-PR. Have you consider proposing this to RCV advocates?

                      wolftune 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                      • wolftune
                        wolftune @Brian Lackey last edited by

                        @brian-lackey I think the main point is to use this to prompt IRV advocates to look at this issue, yes. I do not have plans to spend lots of time making this happen myself though

                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
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