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    • J
      Jack Waugh @Lime last edited by

      @lime The public can read this forum and if any of us thinks the set of participants in the current polling or a future one merits mentioning the poll and its outcome in other fora, antisocial media, and/or personal communications, I don't see anything wrong with that. Promoting reform or revolution can be a goal.

      Approval-ordered Llull (letter grades) [10], Score // Llull [9], Score, STAR, Approval, other rated Condorcet [8]; equal-ranked Condorcet [4]; strictly-ranked Condorcet [3]; everything else [0].

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      • ?
        A Former User @Toby Pereira last edited by

        @toby-pereira said in Polling Ourselves:

        @michaelossipoff said in Polling Ourselves:

        Wouldn’t Score(0-100) be better than Score(0-9) for the RP/Score hybrid? It would have room for expression of all pairwise preferences, instead of sometimes forcing equal-rating.

        Possibly. I kept it at 0-9 for simplicity, but I wouldn't object to 0-100 or 0-99. (There has been debate in the past over whether 10 and 100 or 9 and 99 are better as max scores. I'm fairly unbothered by it.)

        @toby-pereira said in Polling Ourselves:

        @michaelossipoff said in Polling Ourselves:

        Wouldn’t Score(0-100) be better than Score(0-9) for the RP/Score hybrid? It would have room for expression of all pairwise preferences, instead of sometimes forcing equal-rating.

        Possibly. I kept it at 0-9 for simplicity, but I wouldn't object to 0-100 or 0-99. (There has been debate in the past over whether 10 and 100 or 9 and 99 are better as max scores. I'm fairly unbothered by it.)

        0-9 or 0-99 is much more line space-efficient. 0-10 or 0-100 gives you one more rating-slot, , 10/9 or 100/99 times as many rating-slots, but requires 2 or 3/2 times as much linespace.

        But linespace isn’t an issue at all in our balloting, & so, if it were my choice, I’d use 0-10 or 0-100.

        But either is fine with me.

        But you’re probably right to use 0-9 instead of 0-99 for Hybrid, because someone could rate 99 & 98, in order to effectively do all-or-nothing strategy while still expressing a pairwise preference.

        Hybrid doesn’t combine pairwise expression with sincerity incentive as well as I thought, but I’ll still rank & rate it as high as Score(100, 99, 50, 1, 0).

        I heard Williamson in a debate, & based on that, I’ll still rank her 2nd, but I won’t approve her.

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        • ?
          A Former User last edited by A Former User

          It’s taking me this long to get to re-posting my poll-ballots because I choose to vote every by every method proposed for the poll. A few others likely will also, but I emphasize that it isn’t necessary for participation.

          You can, for example, just vote an Approval-set & a ranking, & maybe a Score ballot by your 1 favorite Score balloting.

          (My favorite Score balloting is now Score(0-5). )

          The tacitly-agreed-upon end-date for voting is still 10 days away.

          Anyway, my ballots:

          Voting-Systems:

          Approval Set:

          {Approval, RP(wv)}

          Ranking:

          1. Approval
          2. RP(wv)
          3. Score(0-5)
          4. Score(0-10)
          5. Score(100, 99, 90, 50, 10, 1, 0)
          6. Hybrid
          7. Score(2,1, 0)

          (I think that’s all of the “ candidates”.)

          By Score(0-5) (for elections):

          Approval: 5
          RP(wv): 5
          Score(0-5): 3
          Score(100, 99, 90, 50, 10, 1, 0): 2
          Score(0-10) & Hybrid : 1

          By Score(0-5) (for polls):

          RP(wv), with Score(0-5) & Approval, & maybe Score(100, 99, 90, 50, 10, 1, 0): 5

          By Score(100, 99, 90, 50, 10, 1, 0) (elections):

          Approval: 100
          RP(wv): 100
          Score(0-5): 50
          Score(100, 99, 90, 50, 10, 1, 0): 50
          Score(0-10): 10
          Score (2, 1, 0): 1

          By Score(100, 99, 90, 50, 10, 1, 0) (pols):

          RP(wv), with Approval, Score(0-5), & maybe Score(100, 99, 90, 50, 10, 1, 0): 100

          Presidential Candidates:

          Approval Set:

          {Jill Stein}

          Ranking:

          1. Jill Stein
          2. Marianne Williamson

          By Score(0-5):

          Jill Stein: 5
          Anyone else: 0

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          • J
            Jack Waugh @Guest last edited by

            @michaelossipoff said in Polling Ourselves:

            (I think that’s all of the “ candidates”.)

            They are at https://www.votingtheory.org/forum/post/3169 .

            Hybrid

            I suppose by that you might mean any and all of:

            • STAR (Ossipoff, Waugh)
            • Smith//Score (0 to 9 ballot) (Pereira)
            • quantile-normalized score, with integer scores from 0 to 100 (Frankston)

            Approval-ordered Llull (letter grades) [10], Score // Llull [9], Score, STAR, Approval, other rated Condorcet [8]; equal-ranked Condorcet [4]; strictly-ranked Condorcet [3]; everything else [0].

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            • J
              Jack Waugh last edited by Jack Waugh

              Preliminary result.

              Approval shows a commanding lead!

              I edited and may edit again.
              Fri Mar 15 06:34:20 AM UTC 2024
              For elections.
              Based on Score{100, 99, 90, 50, 10, 1, 0}.

              200 Approval
              150 Score{5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0}
              149 Score{100, 99, 90, 50, 10, 1, 0}
              110 0-9 score [note 0]
              101 Score{2, 1, 0}
              101 0 to 9 scale (only used for ranking),
                  ranked pairs, winning votes. [note 1]
              100 Ranked-Pairs(winning-votes) equal-ranking
                  allowed
              099 STAR
              000 quantile-normalized score, with integer
                  scores from 0 to 100
              

              [0] @MichaelOssipoff says Score(0-10), which is not nominated, and I am counting it as Score{0-9}.
              [1] Ossipoff does not directly indicate this nominee, but I'm assuming he likes it as much as he does the ranking version allowing equal ranking, since for purposes of determining the winner, the scores in this are only an encoding of a ranking allowing equal-ranking.

              Approval-ordered Llull (letter grades) [10], Score // Llull [9], Score, STAR, Approval, other rated Condorcet [8]; equal-ranked Condorcet [4]; strictly-ranked Condorcet [3]; everything else [0].

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              • ?
                A Former User last edited by A Former User

                By “Hybrid”, i just meant Score(0-9) balloting counted as RP(wv).

                Yes, Approval is the natural compromise, though we like different elaborations.

                I forgot about STAR. I rank & rate it with Hybrid.

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                • J
                  Jack Waugh last edited by

                  @michaelossipoff said in End of poll-balloting at the next midnight:

                  Score(100, 99, 90, 50, 10, 1, 0)

                  Your and my ballots are the only ones I know about. I tried to tally them in Score(100, 99, 90, 50, 10, 1, 0), but I based that version of the tally on an interpretation of your ballot that turned out to be not quite in accord with your later clarification. But the lead that that tallying shows for Approval over the rest of the pack is probably pretty accurate.

                  Approval-ordered Llull (letter grades) [10], Score // Llull [9], Score, STAR, Approval, other rated Condorcet [8]; equal-ranked Condorcet [4]; strictly-ranked Condorcet [3]; everything else [0].

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                  • J
                    Jack Waugh last edited by

                    I don't know how to tally in RP(wv).

                    For purposes of tallying

                    Score(0-5)
                    Score(100, 99, 90, 50, 10, 1, 0),

                    here is an attempt to interpret @MichaelOssipoff's ballot while staying confined to the actual nominees.

                    First, let's list again the nominees as I had compiled above.

                    • Approval
                    • Ranked-Pairs(winning-votes) equal-ranking allowed
                    • STAR
                    • Score{2, 1, 0}
                    • Score{100, 99, 90, 50, 10, 1, 0}
                    • Score{5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0}
                    • 0 to 9 scale (only used for ranking), ranked pairs, winning votes
                    • Smith//Score (0 to 9 ballot)
                    • quantile-normalized score, with integer scores from 0 to 100
                    • 0-9 score

                    Now let's bring in @MichaelOssipoff's "ballot" as of the most recent place where he tries to present it in full:

                    @michaelossipoff said in Polling Ourselves:

                    By Score(0-5) (for elections):
                    Approval: 5
                    RP(wv): 5
                    Score(0-5): 3
                    Score(100, 99, 90, 50, 10, 1, 0): 2
                    Score(0-10) & Hybrid : 1

                    ... [skipping entries "for polls", a category we never agreed on]

                    By Score(100, 99, 90, 50, 10, 1, 0) (elections):
                    Approval: 100
                    RP(wv): 100
                    Score(0-5): 50
                    Score(100, 99, 90, 50, 10, 1, 0): 50
                    Score(0-10): 10
                    Score (2, 1, 0): 1

                    He later explains what "Hybrid" means:

                    @michaelossipoff said in Polling Ourselves:

                    By “Hybrid”, i just meant Score(0-9) balloting counted as RP(wv).
                    ...
                    I forgot about STAR. I rank & rate it with Hybrid.

                    So that explains Hybrid.

                    The other problem with Michael's ballot is that it mentions Score(0-10), a non-nominee. In my preliminary tally above, I counted that as 0-9 score. But this time, I'm in the mood to be strict (since this is the end), so I am going to throw it out.

                    So let's map the entries of his Score(0-5) ballot to the nominees:

                    • 5 Approval
                    • 5 Ranked-Pairs(winning-votes) equal-ranking allowed
                    • 1 STAR
                    • 0 Score{2, 1, 0}
                    • 2 Score{100, 99, 90, 50, 10, 1, 0}
                    • 3 Score{5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0}
                    • 1 0 to 9 scale (only used for ranking), ranked pairs, winning votes
                    • 0 Smith//Score (0 to 9 ballot)
                    • 0 quantile-normalized score, with integer scores from 0 to 100
                    • 0 0-9 score

                    And let's do the same wth his Score(100, 99, 90, 50, 10, 1, 0) ballot:

                    • 100 Approval
                    • 100 Ranked-Pairs(winning-votes) equal-ranking allowed
                    • 000 STAR
                    • 001 Score{2, 1, 0}
                    • 050 Score{100, 99, 90, 50, 10, 1, 0}
                    • 050 Score{5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0}
                    • 000 0 to 9 scale (only used for ranking), ranked pairs, winning votes
                    • 000 Smith//Score (0 to 9 ballot)
                    • 000 quantile-normalized score, with integer scores from 0 to 100
                    • 000 0-9 score

                    Approval-ordered Llull (letter grades) [10], Score // Llull [9], Score, STAR, Approval, other rated Condorcet [8]; equal-ranked Condorcet [4]; strictly-ranked Condorcet [3]; everything else [0].

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                    • J
                      Jack Waugh last edited by Jack Waugh

                      Tally in 0-5:

                      (Ossipoff + Waugh = total)

                      same order as I listed the nominees

                      • 5 + 5 = 10 Approval
                      • 5 + 0 = 05 Ranked-Pairs(winning-votes) equal-ranking allowed
                      • 1 + 4 = 05 STAR
                      • 0 + 5 = 05 Score{2, 1, 0}
                      • 2 + 5 = 07 Score{100, 99, 90, 50, 10, 1, 0}
                      • 3 + 5 = 08 Score{5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0}
                      • 1 + 1 = 02 0 to 9 scale (only used for ranking), ranked pairs, winning votes
                      • 0 + 4 = 04 Smith//Score (0 to 9 ballot)
                      • 0 + 0 = 00 quantile-normalized score, with integer scores from 0 to 100
                      • 0 + 5 = 05 0-9 score

                      Reorder by descending totals:

                      • 5 + 5 = 10 Approval
                      • 3 + 5 = 08 Score{5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0}
                      • 2 + 5 = 07 Score{100, 99, 90, 50, 10, 1, 0}
                      • 5 + 0 = 05 Ranked-Pairs(winning-votes) equal-ranking allowed
                      • 1 + 4 = 05 STAR
                      • 0 + 5 = 05 Score{2, 1, 0}
                      • 0 + 5 = 05 0-9 score
                      • 0 + 4 = 04 Smith//Score (0 to 9 ballot)
                      • 1 + 1 = 02 0 to 9 scale (only used for ranking), ranked pairs, winning votes
                      • 0 + 0 = 00 quantile-normalized score, with integer scores from 0 to 100

                      Approval has a 20% lead over the runner-up.

                      Approval-ordered Llull (letter grades) [10], Score // Llull [9], Score, STAR, Approval, other rated Condorcet [8]; equal-ranked Condorcet [4]; strictly-ranked Condorcet [3]; everything else [0].

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                      • J
                        Jack Waugh last edited by

                        Tally in Score{100, 99, 90, 50, 10, 1, 0}:

                        (Ossipoff + Waugh = total)

                        same order as I listed the nominees

                        • 100 + 100 = 200 Approval
                        • 100 + 000 = 100 Ranked-Pairs(winning-votes) equal-ranking allowed
                        • 000 + 099 = 099 STAR
                        • 001 + 100 = 101 Score{2, 1, 0}
                        • 050 + 099 = 149 Score{100, 99, 90, 50, 10, 1, 0}
                        • 050 + 100 = 150 Score{5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0}
                        • 000 + 001 = 001 0 to 9 scale (only used for ranking), ranked pairs, winning votes
                        • 000 + 090 = 090 Smith//Score (0 to 9 ballot)
                        • 000 + 000 = 000 quantile-normalized score, with integer scores from 0 to 100
                        • 000 + 100 = 100 0-9 score

                        Reorder by descending totals:

                        • 100 + 100 = 200 Approval
                        • 050 + 100 = 150 Score{5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0}
                        • 050 + 099 = 149 Score{100, 99, 90, 50, 10, 1, 0}
                        • 001 + 100 = 101 Score{2, 1, 0}
                        • 100 + 000 = 100 Ranked-Pairs(winning-votes) equal-ranking allowed
                        • 000 + 100 = 100 0-9 score
                        • 000 + 099 = 099 STAR
                        • 000 + 090 = 090 Smith//Score (0 to 9 ballot)
                        • 000 + 001 = 001 0 to 9 scale (only used for ranking), ranked pairs, winning votes
                        • 000 + 000 = 000 quantile-normalized score, with integer scores from 0 to 100

                        Approval beats the runner-up by 25%, he exclaimed.

                        Approval-ordered Llull (letter grades) [10], Score // Llull [9], Score, STAR, Approval, other rated Condorcet [8]; equal-ranked Condorcet [4]; strictly-ranked Condorcet [3]; everything else [0].

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